• http://www.deadhippo.com/ Alan

    Just a Wordans store too.

  • http://www.yanmosdesign.com yanmos

    ouch!

  • http://twitter.com/fluffythoughts dan stanley

    YIKES..

  • Chris

    I think the worst part about this is that, if they have the right amount of friends/supporters, they will still do well – really frustrating as this is sub-par and not even close to worth what they are charging. Good on ya Andrew for calling them out!

  • Word of Mouth

    Prestige Worldwide

  • Ramon

    I hope you contacted them first to let them know you were going to do a post like this about them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/cornel.saluone Cornel Saluone

    Completely agree! I think back when I was young, inexperienced and at some of the bad designs and ideas I had. I almost feel bad for this brand. The logo itself has any number of bad design principles and the apparel could be seen as a gag gift/novelty, but their prices make me think they are very serious and they truly believe they have gold. I assume you get these all the time so its good to occasionally give it straight.

  • Anonymous

    Not really cool to bash the submissions you don’t like…just saying.

  • Harry Balls

    The way I see it is, if you’re putting something out there into the public domain, you must be prepared for opinions & criticism. If what you have is a good product, the feedback will reflect that, if it’s a piece of shit, you’ll hear about it.

    I hate this thing of patting people on the back and saying “Good job” for doing something mediocre.

  • http://www.teecraze.com TeeCraze

    In my opinion, you really have to have good products in the first place before you will have any interest in products with your logo on it.

  • http://hideyourarms.com/ Andy (Hide Your Arms)

    From the submissions page “Andy, on occasion, will provide critique and criticism of submissions,
    so please be aware that by submitting you accept this is a possibility,
    he’ll never be intentionally hurtful, but he will be honest with his
    advice.”

    By submitting a post brands accept that there will be criticism. Had they not submitted I wouldn’t have posted about them.

  • http://hideyourarms.com/ Andy (Hide Your Arms)

    From the submissions page guidelines “Andy, on occasion, will provide critique and criticism of submissions,
    so please be aware that by submitting you accept this is a possibility,
    he’ll never be intentionally hurtful, but he will be honest with his
    advice.”

    Brands are given fair warning that I will leave comments, had I just posted this without comment regular readers would have wondered what was going on.

  • Ismadi

    Better to let them have a rethink of their product if they’re interested in their branding than to let it go unposted and leave them wondering why so little interest.

    Most brands get better over time, maybe this will push them to get better faster.

  • johno

    I found out that their wordans store was a trial store,
    Here is the new store I found http://www.born2struggle.spreadshirt.com
    This one looks way better I believe these guys are trying harder.
    Give them a fair chance and review the real store.

  • http://hideyourarms.com/ Andy (Hide Your Arms)

    Fair enough, that does look a bit better, but I could only work with the information that they gave me at the time, if it was a trial store they should have made that clear.

  • http://twitter.com/fluffythoughts dan stanley

    to be honest i am surprised that they are pushing those designs at all.. they look like they’ve been put together by someone with no knowledge of design/illustration..

  • Ben_P

    Why is it not cool? Did he all out rip it out of them? No. It’s advice – people don’t get better without advice. It’s illogical and given that it is in the submission section why not comment – its an honest comment would you rather everything was reviewed as amazing or brilliant – face facts some stuff is just rubbish and people need to know otherwise they’ll become complacent – its not even it was because he didn’t like the concept of the design, you get great ideas poorly executed and poor ideas amazingly executed. Would you really want to go through selling or making stuff and people didn’t tell you the honest truth? I sure as hell would not.

  • AussieGeorge

    Who do you think you are slandering a couple of struggling aussies trying to earn a buck while you have designs that I wouldn’t pay 50c for in an opp shop! Your bores me.. kthanxbye!

  • AussieGeorge

    Clearly I ment.. YOUR STORE BORES ME!

  • http://hideyourarms.com/ Andy (Hide Your Arms)

    If you could explain which parts of my commentary are slanderous that would be super. I am a guy who have spent the past six and a half years looking at thousands of startup t-shirt labels so I do have quite a lot of experience knowing what works and what doesn’t, if these guys want to earn a buck I’m all for it, but with what they have right now they’re making it a lot harder to earn money. Also, it’s important to remember that they submitted this post to my site themselves, aware that I could make comments if I chose to, I didn’t just randomly pick on them.

    I realise that there is a bit of hypocrisy in me having only logo items in my shop, but the difference is I don’t call my shop a brand, it’s just a bit of merchandise to help support the blog, a blog which has been running for 6+ years and has a community around it. Also, I’ve actually spent money on getting a logo designed, and also on having high quality prints on high quality garments, so I’ve taken a risk in spending money whereas born2struggle have put some designs that I feel need work into a print on demand store where they have no exposure and no risk beyond a few hours work drawing a logo.

    It’s okay if my stuff bores you, it’s not meant for you, it’s meant for people that like this site, whereas B2S appear to be trying to create a brand out of their name with nothing built around it, and that’s why I feel that they will really have trouble attracting fans and sales, because they don’t give people a good reason to care about them or separate themselves from every other brand out there.

  • Amy

    The shirts are way too expensive, even the updated version of the store:
    http://born2struggle.spreadshirt.com/p2 – has all logo tees. You only print logo tees when you are known enough to have people recognize you by your logo. That takes longer than 1 or 2 years sometimes. To launch and run a brand simply off of a logo “born2struggle” is failure at its finest. They may get some sales from family and close friends for the first few months but if they want to be a “brand” they need to do some branding. They currently have none right now. I can’t even say their newer website had much effort put into to. Sure compared to the “trial” one it has improved but this just upsets me to no end. Every one thinks its so easy to run a brand or design shirts, and it’s far from easy and FAR FAR FAR from putting some clever words together or adding some clipart.

  • Amy

    The shirts are way too expensive, even the updated version of the store:
    http://born2struggle.spreadshirt.com/p2 – has all logo tees. You only print logo tees when you are known enough to have people recognize you by your logo. That takes longer than 1 or 2 years sometimes. To launch and run a brand simply off of a logo “born2struggle” is failure at its finest. They may get some sales from family and close friends for the first few months but if they want to be a “brand” they need to do some branding. They currently have none right now. I can’t even say their newer website had much effort put into to. Sure compared to the “trial” one it has improved but this just upsets me to no end. Every one thinks its so easy to run a brand or design shirts, and it’s far from easy and FAR FAR FAR from putting some clever words together or adding some clipart.

  • Anonymous

    I understand that, but in the world of indie brands, don’t we want to help each other and give them the correct criticism and advice they need, rather than just saying how much they suck over and over?

  • Anonymous

    No, but why label them as “the worst HYA submission.” Clearly they didn’t post their work only to be labeled as the worst. So what if the designs suck, give them advice and other ways to fix it before shoot them down. They’re trying, just like the rest of us!

  • http://hideyourarms.com/ Andy (Hide Your Arms)

    There’s only so much time I can devote to each post, and only so many times that I feel it’s appropriate to reiterate the same points to people that I have been saying for years. The advice is pretty much all out there already if people are willing to search for it, so for me to spend 30+ minutes giving people advice when they might not even respond (this happens via e-mail frequently) is something of a fool’s errand.

    Honestly, I do think the best advice is that these guys start again after taking a lot more time to investigate the ins and out of the industry. The best advice I’ve ever had was people telling me that aspects of Rigu sucked, I looked at them with a fresh perspective and agreed, then did research myself and improved the situation.

  • http://hideyourarms.com/ Andy (Hide Your Arms)

    I feel that this is one of the worst submissions I’ve ever had, not just the brand themselves but also the actual submission. They could have e-mailed me directly and received advice in private but they made their choice.

    The title is blunt, I’ll grant you that, I paused before I pressed publish, but the decision is ultimately mine, and clearly has helped to provide them with a lot more exposure than they’d have got if I just published this with “thanks for the submission, guys” written at the bottom and moved on.

  • Danny

    Andy’s right… these guys are getting A LOT of exposure here with his post, so people will be able to make up their own minds when they go to their site, which I will be doing directly after posting this. And, because I can think for myself, I will make my own decision on whether or not they suck or how good/bad they are. Of course, I’ve already had a look at their logo here, and to be honest, it’s not that great, but I’m still going over to the site. If I see something I like, I might buy it (that’s a big might, for sure), but it is within the realm of possibilities.

    At the end of the day, you stick your neck out, it might get chopped.

  • Steven

    If monster came to you with their shitty claw design would you slander them as the worst design ever? It clearly has less effort put in then born2struggle..have you seen their store recently? Ive bought 2 shirts and a hat, their designs and quality are exceptional. You may have to eat your words andy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jennifer.k.bray Jennifer Kay Bray

    i think they are intresting and different, at least they have started somewhere better than sitting on there backsides doing nothing!!!! im guessing it is just the start of there bussiness got to start somewhere dont you think. glad you have posted what you have thou, that way they can prove diks like you wrong !!!

  • http://hideyourarms.com/ Andy (Hide Your Arms)

    Hi there, I will say that the situation and designs over at B2S have
    improved somewhat since I wrote this article, but I still stand by it..
    See here for why I believe criticism is important in the design
    industry: http://hideyourarms.com/2012/09/04/51593/

    If they prove
    me wrong then great, I don’t have an agenda against anyone in the
    industry, I’ve spent the past 7 years writing about and supporting
    independent brands. Also, it’s rude to call me a dick just because you don’t agree with what I say.

  • http://hideyourarms.com/ Andy (Hide Your Arms)

    Hi Steven, unfortunately I don’t have time to return to stores that put in a submission on a regular basis, if B2S were to e-mail me and ask me to take another look then of course I would. Taking a quick look now I feel things have improved somewhat, please remember that the article written above is from August, and since then they have changed quite a few things, including adding new designs to their store which aren’t as simple or based on their logo (which I still feel is quite poor).

    Also, I didn’t say they have the worst designs ever, and it isn’t slander, they submitted information to my site on a page where there is a disclaimer saying that their submission may be critiqued, I didn’t hunt these guys out to make fun of them. If you look at the rest of this site you’ll find that the vast majority of posts are positive, I’m here to help people and support indie brands, but it would be downright unfair of me to have posted this without comment or been positive when I know that there are a lot of things that they can improve to create a better site and offer better designs. Please see here for why I believe criticism is important to brands: http://hideyourarms.com/2012/09/04/51593/

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